The True Outcomes of Nature Connectedness with Dr. Caroline Harvey

Today’s episode feels especially grounding, literally. When we think about teen well-being, we usually address topics such as friendships, school stress, social media, or family dynamics. But we don’t always think about something much quieter, and maybe much more powerful: our connection to nature. What does it mean to feel connected to the natural world? How does time outdoors shape mental health, resilience, or even identity? And what happens when access to nature isn’t equal for everyone? For this episode, I wanted to explore how the spaces around us influence who we are becoming during adolescence, and to help us explore just that, I’m honored to welcome Dr. Caroline Harvey.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Growing Forward, a podcast by Positive World, Positive People. I'm your host, Sadie Sunborn Malachy, a 15-year-old girl from Southern California, and I'm so glad that you're here today. Today's episode feels especially grounding, literally. When we think about teen well-being, we usually think about friendships, school stress, social media, or family dynamics, but we don't always think about something much quieter, or maybe much more powerful, our connection to nature. What does it mean to feel connected to the natural world? How does time outdoors shape mental health, resilience, and even identity? And what happens when access to nature isn't equal to everyone? For this episode, I wanted to explore how the space around us, parks, forests, gardens, even small green spaces influence who we are becoming during our adolescent years. To help us discover this idea, I'm honored to welcome Dr. Caroline Harvey. Dr. Harvey is an environmental psychologist at the University of Derby whose research focuses on connecting young people, including those from disadvantaged backgrounds, with nature. Her work explores how environmental experiences shape well-being, social relationships, and identity development. So without further ado, Dr. Harvey, thank you so much for being here today. Hi, it's good to be here. Let's begin. So, what initially drew you to environmental psychology and to working specifically with young people and their nature connection?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Okay, so I guess I work at the University of Derby as a senior lecturer in psychology. So I'm really interested in people's behaviour and the kind of things that might influence that and things that might influence their well-being as well. Personally, I've always had a strong connection with nature and spending time outdoors has always been my kind of go-to thing because I know it makes me feel good. So I've known that ever since I was young, from when I was a child. And so I guess it's sort of about recognising the benefits that nature can have for all sorts of people. I've got children of my own. So when they were young, we spent a lot of time going outdoors, walking in the countryside at local parks with the dogs in the woods, and you know, recognising the benefit that nature has for them as well. And then I guess more recently, in terms of like my work through the university, that came about through working with a number of different external organisations. So quite often we'll get contracted in to do some consultancy work or research work for organisations that want to see if what they're doing actually has an impact. And I was already researching in the area of nature connectedness and the benefits of nature for human well-being. And there we've been approached by, you know, various organizations such as our local wildlife trust, who have an agenda not only around looking after the wildlife in the own local area in the environment, but around connecting people with nature and encouraging local people to look after that nature in their local area as well. So we've done quite a bit of work with them looking at evaluating some of the initiatives that they had put together as part of that agenda. And then a lot of the work that we sort of seemed to pick up as a result of that was around looking at how we can engage young people with nature and the benefits that it can bring for them. So I guess there's sort of several kind of different strands that have led me to come into this area really, partly personal interest, partly having my own children, and then also at work in terms of it's part of my job, which is brilliant because I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

That is so incredible. I love how all these different aspects of your life, whether, as you said, that be your personal anecdotes or your children or even your job, are all contributing to this like factor of this overall kind of drive for this nature connectedness and to pursue this path, which is so crucial yet not very common in our world. I feel like if we discuss nature connectedness, it's not that often. So I really like that all of these different components of your life are really intertwining for this overarching idea and really contributing to this better thing. So when we say nature connectedness, what does that actually mean in research terms? Is it about time spent outside, emotional connection, environmental values, or something deeper, especially for adolescents? What do those two words mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, so I guess for me, it kind of it's all of those different things really. So if we're looking at sort of the technical definition for nature connectedness, it really focuses in on that emotional connection and the experiential sort of sense of what the feeling that you get from being in nature. So for some people it can be quite spiritual in terms of that connection that they have with nature. Some of the research that we've done at Derby is focused around different pathways to nature connectedness. So that could be things around noticing the beauty in nature or wanting to look after nature, having compassion for the environment and the world around us. So I think the the key thing really is about that emotional connection, the emotional affinity that we might have with the natural world. And quite often when we sort of look at some of the research, it might focus on contact with nature, which could just be in relation to spending time in nature. That connection, the connectedness goes a little bit further than just spending time because it's about noticing what's happening in the nature around you, being aware of, you know, how lovely the leaves look on a tree, or the sound of it, or the sound of the leaves and the wind in them, or the smell of freshly cut grass. So all those sort of different experiences that we can have where we can take pleasure from spending time in nature as well.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

That's really cool. And I bet that's a very individual experience too, correct? Because everybody has their own idea of what with nature is.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, and I think, and you know, another thing with it is we kind of talk about nature as being this separate thing, but we're all a part of nature because we are nature. We we are living beings, the same as the birds are or the fish, or you know, the plants and the trees, we're all part of that natural environment. So there's sort of there's some discussion around this sort of disconnect that is perceived in relation to sort of people's relationship with nature in some circumstances, but actually, if we see ourselves as being part of nature, that's another aspect of nature connectedness. How much we feel nature is a part of us, and how much we are, you know, a part of nature, and whether you see that natural world as being really distinct to you as an individual, or there's different degrees of overlap where you might see yourself as being a part of it, or feeling completely embedded in that natural world. And I guess when we look at the way that we live now, there's been a huge amount of change in the last sort of 200 years. We've gone from living very sort of outdoor rural lives, um, to we have the obviously the industrial revolution that has really changed the way that people live with the increase in urbanization and growth of cities and so on. So there's been a lot of very rapid change for us as humans in the last say 300, 400 years, you know, it's totally different to what it was like before then. Um, and so that's where we kind of have this feeling that perhaps we're not as connected with nature as we used to be, and partly that could be because we've not got that opportunity because the environments that we live in now are very different to what those environments were a few hundred years ago, and so in terms of evolution sort of scale, that's happened really quickly, but actually we've got this sort of inbuilt, innate affinity with that natural world because the natural world is what provides us with everything that we need to be able to survive. So there's this kind of innate link that we have with nature that could be partly why, you know, why we see all the benefits from it, why we love looking at that view or you know, staring out into the distance over the lakes and the trees and the fields and what have you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I love that perspective so much because it really just amplifies that idea that we are all part of nature, we are nature. As you said, we're as similar to the birds and the other animals that are running around the ground because we are animals ourselves. And as you said, in the last 200 years with the Industrial Revolution and our society just keeps evolving on this rapid technological pace. Maybe sometimes we feel that disconnect. But reality, as you said, in our roots, deep within, we are nature and we're connected with it. It's just that we've kind of lost ourselves along the way and given ourselves this idea that we're not intertwined with it anymore. But in reality, we're all technically living in it still. It just looks like a new environment. And our classifications of what nature is or what nature has become is just different than what it was before. However, we're all still in nature 24-7. Our habitat is this world, and our world is nature. So no matter if you're in a city, you're still connected to what that was way back when. Yeah. Yeah. So adolescence is a very formative period of identity. This is the time where everybody is learning about themselves and who they want to become and all of the different components that go into that. So, how does nature connection actually influence a teenager's sense of self? And what are the processes that sometimes a teenager may go through in nature to discover who they are deep within?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

So this is quite interesting because we've got we've got some research that's looked at sort of levels of nature connectedness over time and across the age span. So we can see how when children are quite young, they seem to show quite high levels of connection with nature. And then when young people get into those sort of teenage years, we see it dropping off in UK samples. So this might be different for you in the States, but certainly in the UK we see those those levels of nature connectedness dipping in the teenage and then increasing again in sort of young adulthood. And it's quite interesting. So we don't really know exactly what's happening with that, but I think a lot of it could be around the kind of changing influences in a young person's life because we know as people get into the teenagers that that's a time when friends and peers are really, really important, and kind of family and parents probably become a lot less important in terms of the kind of activities that people might be doing. So when when children are young, you know, a lot of that activity and and sort of things that they do is guided by the parents and what the where the parents take them and the kind of activities they engage with. Those teenagers, the adolescent period is around breaking away from the parents and starting to forge your own identity. And so, you know, there's this and there's all those added pressures of everything else that's going on in life, all the sports clubs that you might want to be in, all the other activities, it might be, you know, gaming or online sort of activities, and things have changed so much. And so we do see this sort of dip in nature connectedness in the in those teenage years. But what we've seen from a lot of the research that we've done with of young people in that age group is giving people the opportunity to go out into nature and spend time there is really beneficial for them, and they get an awful lot out of it. So, some of the research that we've been involved with has been where we've taken children from relatively deprived backgrounds or who might live in cities or areas where they don't necessarily get to see a lot of nature and where they're currently based and take them for outdoor residential courses. So in the UK, we have a lot of like quite um a lot of different sort of outdoor residential activities would take place through the school system. So they may go for a two, three, four-night residential as part of the school curriculum, but to you know, go to an area of like outstanding natural beauty in the countryside where they're getting to experience what it's like to be in a really different environment to the one where they live and go to school. And those outdoor experiences really help them to, you know, try new things, to develop new skills, to push the boundaries and you know, do activities that they wouldn't normally get engaged with, like, you know, it might be going kayaking on a river or canyoning or bouldering or you know, all sorts of different kinds of outdoor things. Even just going for a hike, you know, for a 10-mile hike in the mountains or the hills wouldn't be something that people would readily do on a day-to-day basis. But these outdoor residentials give them that opportunity to try some of the things, these things that they may not have done before. And then that in turn, you know, it might have an impact on, I guess, because you the your question was around identity and self-identity. We know from some of these, some of the feedback that we've had from this is that it can lead some young people to think about new career options that they'd never even thought about before. So before going on to some of these courses, for example, some of the young people had never thought about that as a potential career path for them. But having seen the, you know, the people who are running the programmes, who are running the activities, realising that they do that as their job. They're out there outdoors every day, you know, doing all this amazing work with children and young people. For some of them who go on the courses, it inspires them to go on to that kind of career in the future. So I guess, you know, if we think about it in those terms, it can certainly help in terms of that identif identity formation, thinking about what they might want to do in the future. But I guess I don't know if, you know, when you're actually out there having a nice time in the outdoors or sort of reflecting on yourself, how much time do young people actually spend focused on what their own identity is? Or is it just a case of, you know, being or living in the moment that they're in? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Indeed. I bet it depends on the situation. But I first want to start by saying that initiative that you mentioned where kids from either areas that do not have access to nature or just condensed areas within cities get to go out into the environment and just integrate themselves into it. Sounds like a beautiful project. I think a lot of the times we take that nature and what's around us for granted, or we just don't have the opportunity to always go out when life is so busy, or we don't have the time, or whatever it may be. But I love that project where you're actually getting kids to be within nature. And as you said, it it's giving them new ideas about jobs and paths in the future because there are so many different opportunities that nature can give us. And then I also want to intertwine that with the idea that during our adolescent period, we're getting influenced, as you said, by so many other external factors than when we were as a young child. As you said, peers and different factors within our school systems, whether that be extracurricular, hobbies, whatever it is, they influence us on a different way than when we were maybe five or six. And now, as teenagers, we're seeing all of these things in a new light and our priorities realign. And this is when we have this moment in time of discovering who we are. However, sometimes we leave parts of our past behind, and that's when we see sometimes adolescents don't always go out into nature and they don't always integrate themselves with it because it's not like the social norm. It's not normal for them to want to go on a hike for so many days or want to go camping with their friends. So to try to fit in with everyone, they kind of push that aside, which is really sad. But I think as a society, we have to welcome that idea that you yourself are going to go through this period in time where maybe these external influences are gonna take you away from who you really are deep within. However, it'll always be back there with you. And as you said, a lot of young adults then again go back into nature and want to connect to it. So there is this period, adolescence, when you're just discovering who you are and all the different influences of life are really shaping who you're gonna become. And maybe we get discontent with all the nature that's around us, but eventually we're gonna find it again. And maybe that isn't who we are, maybe it is who we are. But taking that period in time and using it as a time to realize where we're coming from and what we want to look at in the future is really, really crucial and significant. And your work also connects nature experiences with youth well-being, which intertwines with identity because discovering who we are can sometimes not always be the easiest process. And all of the external factors that are out there can sometimes make our well-being not as great. So, what does the research say how nature affects anxiety, stress, or emotional regulation in adolescents?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Okay, so so there's one of the theories that's looked at this, which is it's a really interesting one. It's when we think about emotion regulation and how nature can help to support emotion regulation for people. So there's there's a theory called the Three Circles model, which was developed by Professor Paul Gilbert, who's also based in Derby. And this theory sort of breaks emotions down into three different systems. So at any moment, we are either in the drive system or we are in threat or we are in soothing. So the threat system has evolved because that's what keeps us safe. So these have all evolved over millions of years of evolution. And we've got a threat system because that needs to keep us safe. So if we see something, you know, dangerous, then we will go into threat mode. And that activates our sympathetic nervous system. It prepares us for action because we might need to run away from that threat or we might need to defend ourselves. Then we have the drive system, which is what gets us out of bed in the morning, what's gets us motivated. It's what got us both here today to talk about this. So we're both in drive at the moment, and that drive system also activates the sympathetic nervous system, gets us ready for action, it's getting us focused, you know, thinking about how we're going to ask these questions, how are we going to answer them. And then we've got the soothing system. And the soothing system is different to the drive and threat systems because this activates the parasympathetic nervous system. So this is the side of our body's physiology that calms everything down. So rather than the drive, the drive and threat system, which activate our physiology in a way to prepare us for action, the soothing system, the parasympathetic nervous system, is what calms everything down and helps us. It gets taught, could you know, could refer to it as the rest and digest system. It's where we feel relaxed, we feel calm, we feel contented and connected. So key things that activate that soothing system are receiving care from a caregiver. So, for example, you know, having a hug or physical touch from a parent or a sibling, for example, and nature also activates that parasympathetic nervous system that helps us to release those positive hormones that help us to feel much more relaxed and much calmer. And so we think that this is nature is activating that parasympathetic nervous system, helping us to feel calmer, helping us to feel more relaxed and connected. And so there's you can see how that this sort of gives this explanation for why does nature have that impact for us? And if you think about it, I mean, there's that's just one theory. There are other theories as well, like attention restoration theory, um and you know, uh suggest that spending in time in nature helps us, it's a bit like having a reset so that we can um sort of focus better after we've spent time in nature. So if you think if you perhaps have been feeling a bit stressed, and then you go out for a walk to help clear your head, and you you go for a walk, and hopefully, you know, if that walk is able to take in some bits of nature, whether it's a walk around the park or just a walk along the street where you can see the trees and the gardens and hear the birds singing, and you come back feeling so much better. And it is that you know, that opportunity to go and just spend that little bit of time out in nature can be really beneficial for us. And so that's sort of one of the explanations for why it has this positive impact for us. There's lots of other, there's uh various theories as well. Um if you if you have a look at like theories of forest bathing, which is something that's come from Japan, Shinrin Yoku is the official term for it. And this is where if you spend time in the forest, it's basically if you think of it a bit like sunbathing, but in a forest, so you would spend time in a forest or a wooded area, you move much more slowly than usual, you take time to really notice what's around you, and I think it's that really noticing that can be really important and helpful. Slow everything down, focused, you know, through your senses on what you can see, what you can smell, what you can feel. That all has a really positive impact, and it has an impact on our physiology, so it's activating that parasympathetic nervous system. Um, and it also, you know, it ha has an impact on our emotions as well, in terms of how stressed or anxious we might be feeling. So, and there are chemicals that are released by the trees, there are chemicals that are released, you know, from the ground in terms of if you think when you walk through a forest or a wood when it's been raining, the smell of the earth and a leaf litter, yeah. Well, it's releasing chemicals that are good for us as well. So it's you know, this oh, there's so many different things that are going on that that helped to explain why nature is really good for us and why it can help us to feel good. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

I think especially taking it as a moment in time, as you said, to just reset and have an observation and really just look around, especially in a world where, as adolescents and just people in general, we're constantly on the move doing the next big thing, trying to get our homework done, trying to achieve something in our extracurriculars, trying to interact with our friends and our parents, whatever it may be. We're constantly on the move and we're kind of this go, go, go mentality. I liked that you put it into three different things. I think a lot of the time as adolescents, we're in this drive. We're always going for something, we're trying to get something done. And we don't really take those moments to soothe ourselves and just reset and restore. And nature, however, can provide that environment too, because in instances, adolescents don't always have the space to actually take a moment. They don't think that their bedroom, now they've connected their bedroom to homework and just going, so they don't think of it as a place to just relax. So nature gives us that place in that environment to look around and just be observant. And I love that idea of actually like forest bathing. I've never heard of that before. But that is so innovative and so cool because if you think about it, sunbathing is super soothing and super relaxing. So why can't forest bathing too be that exact same thing? Especially because when you're in nature, you're just looking around, you're hearing the noises, you're seeing what's in front of you. You're in an experience. It's almost like a trance in a way, which it's innate to us. And it in our past, that's what we saw day to day, but now it's kind of separated from who we are. So taking that time and those steps to just be within and reset and be with your mind is really clearing. And I love that nature can provide that space for any person, but especially adolescent members, when we're constantly in that drive state or in that kind of nervous state where we don't know what's gonna happen next. So, with that, I know we just mentioned going into nature as a solo experience. And we often imagine the entirety of just being out in nature by ourselves. But can shared outdoor experiences strengthen friendships or social belonging among teenagers and can in advance our psychology about what nature connectionness is?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah, definitely. So I think certainly from the research that we've done. So this is the research we did, it's through a programme called Generation Green Two, which was funded by the government here, and it's been led by the Outward Bound Trust and the Youth Hostel Association. And so they took, you know, groups of young people out for these experiences, residential experiences in nature. And then we collected some data from both the young people who'd taken part in the activities, but also from the teachers who'd accompanied them on the um trips as well. And it was really, you know, it was so interesting to see what they'd said, and it was lovely to see the positive benefits. But one of the key things that came out of it was change relationships. And we know we've had this feedback from children and young people from, you know, from say the age of um 11 years up to 18. So really, you know, spanning a broad age range of how it had changed their friendships or how they'd made new friends. And I think getting away from that school environment helps people to see one another in a different light. So the children, the young people had opportunities to forge new friendships with people who they'd not and perhaps been friends with before, but also the teachers reflected on the relationship that they had with some of the young people as well. So the cheat teachers are saying, actually, when we got back to school, I'm now seeing this person in a different light. And they were seeing the teachers in a different light because rather than the teachers being there, you know, sort of like leading whatever lesson, but teachers also have that role that sometimes I feel puts some put some odds with the with the young people because they might be looking at school uniform and you know, correcting uniform issues. You've not got that when you're outdoors, and so there were there were these changed relationships with the adolescents and the young people themselves between one another, they've had opportunities to build new relationships. In some circumstances, you know, if you think you're you a lot of the time they're doing activities that are really physically challenging, the support that they give one another during those physical challenges, the celebration when somebody achieves something that they found really difficult to do, but they've made it, they've got to the top of that mountain or that hill, or they've kayaked down that stream, or you know, done whatever it was, they can celebrate these things together and enjoy it, enjoy it all together. And I think, you know, there's also um I just sort of moving away from that slightly, I'm thinking as well around forest school activities, which a lot of younger people do in the UK. At forest school, one of the key things they do at the end of those activities is like have a fire circle. So if they've like set a fire that they can sit around with marshmallows, toasting on the fire, that bonding, that group bonding can be really, really beneficial for people. So I think you know, whether you perhaps even thinking about joining something like the Scouts and going on scouting activities, that can get people out into nature, but or just going out with your friends, you know, going for a hike with some friends. So I think if there's sometimes it's sort of it might be easier for people to have that access if there's an organized activity for them to join in with and go and have a go, because it can be a bit daunting if it's not something that you're used to doing or not something that your family's done, it can feel quite daunting. And you know, it's we recognise that it's not easy for some people to do this, but once people start doing it and start to feel the benefits of it and realize actually it can be really enjoyable. So I guess it's perhaps, you know, it might be useful maybe have a look at what's happening in the local area if there's any sort of clubs that might be doing these kind of things, or just getting together with some friends to sort of think about where where could we go or what could we do that you know gives you that opportunity to get out there and perhaps try something a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

I want to highlight two things that you just said. First off, when we're in nature, it kind of strips us down to who we are deep within. As we mentioned before, being in school 24-7 or focusing on our hobbies all the time makes us really go. And it just makes us want to drive for this person that maybe isn't who we are deep within. Maybe day to day, I would love to just be in nature and kind of be serene and meditate all of the time, but society has shaped it in a way that I have to keep working for something. I have to keep going in my school activities. And everyone around me is in that same light as well. However, as you mentioned, when people are in this environment where they're just interacting with each other face to face with no distractions, it's just them and who they are. They create deeper bonds and deeper connections. You actually get to know who that other person who's maybe sitting across from you is. And you don't have to hide kind of behind this wall anymore of everything that school's putting on you. And I love how you gave the comparison of teachers as well, because sometimes in school systems, we're kind of put against our teachers because they're supposed to be our superiors. They're supposed to teach us, which maybe isn't the most fun thing. They're supposed to, as you said, if we're wearing a certain attire, supposed to dress code us. And there's all of these different factors that are kind of pinning us against each other where we're not supposed to create this intimate bond with them. However, when we're in a nature scape and we're actually discovering who our teacher is and what their personality is, what they're, what they like, what they dislike, all of these different factors, we're getting to know them and we're getting to know them for the real person they are, which makes such a better picture in our minds and just helps us shape this bigger connection. And I also want to mention how you said nature can be very intimidating. If you think about, wait, I don't want to go on a 10 mile hike today. Is that what nature connectedness means? No, everybody's experiences are gonna be different, but taking that initial step to just put yourself out there and maybe you're just gonna go for a walk on the beach. Maybe you're gonna just go in your local park and stare at the birds that are flying around for a second, or maybe you're going on a two-day backpack backpacking trip. Whoa, backpacking trip with your friends. And that's great for you. However, there's so many different factors that can go into it. But taking that step and being like, okay, I'm gonna go into nature, I'm gonna find some way that works for me to feel grounded and connected to everything that is around me, it's gonna be super beneficial. And in the end, it's gonna prove to just help you out in the world and help you recenter yourself if you're feeling lost. So for teenagers who don't have regular access to the outdoor experiences, what changes when they don't have that access and how can they still feel connected to nature in those settings?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

So I guess for me, one of the things that I'd find I do this wherever I go, but I'm always looking for nature. So even if I'm in a city, I will be drawn to looking at the trees that might be planted on the sides of the streets. Or if there's a house or a shop with a window box or a floral display, I'll be looking at that. Like you say, I'll be listening for the birds and seeing what birds I might see flying around, or we have a lot of squirrels here, so it might be squirrels that we see, you know, hopping about through the trees. And so I think for me, one of those key things is you can find nature wherever you look for it. So even in the cities, one of the things I like to spot is, you know, there might be an old building that's a bit derelict and a bit run down, and you look up to the top of that building, and there'll be plants growing out of the gutters or out of the roof, and there'll be butterflies on them, or there might be bees that are buzzing around, and there's all these little things that we can notice that you know it's very easy to walk by and not think about it. And what you find is once you start getting focused in on looking for that nearby nature, you start spotting more and more of it. So even just walking down the street, you know, you may see there's some weeds growing, you know, we'll call them weeds, weeds growing at the side of the path. But actually, you know, those weeds have probably got flowers on them, and there might be some caterpillars on there, or there might be a bee that's coming down, you know, and you can when you really start to focus in on it, you can see all sorts of nature that's really local to you that you might not have not have really noticed before or not given any thought to before. So, you know, for people who do live in towns and cities, there is still nature out there that you'll be able to see and find. It will be different to what you might see if you go to a wilderness area or the countryside, but that doesn't make it any less important or valuable to us, and it's still part of that overall ecosystem as well. And another thing that you know people might want to give a try is just having a look at the sky at night. So I know there's a lot of issues with light pollution in cities and towns, and sometimes it can be really hard to see the stars. But if you have an opportunity to go and have a look when the moon is really bright, because you can't miss the moon, even if you even if you still go to see the stars, hopefully you can still see the never message. But you know, this is another aspect of of work that one of my colleagues is leading on at Derby is around connectedness with the night sky and connectedness with nature at night. And so this is something else that you can explore as well, is to have a look at what nature is out there at night that you might not see in the day, or equally just looking up at the night sky and taking that in. And what can you hear at night that's different to in the day? You know, do you still hear insects buzzing at night? Are they louder at night than they are in the day? The different types of insects. Or if you're lucky, you might hear an owl or a nightbird. I don't know what night birds you have in America. I assume you have owls as well, like we do here, but like where I live at night, we'll hear the owls twick to wooing. And it's quite rare to actually see an owl, but you can certainly hear them, so you know that they're there. So I guess it's also, you know, and that's another thing is to think about listening for what you can hear as well, whether you can actually hear any birds or hear whatever you know, animals you might hear. Sometimes here we might hear foxes at night chattering away and yeah, going about their business. So for me, it's it's sort of thinking, yeah, it is difficult for some people to access nature if you do live in towns and cities. But I just like to look for it wherever I am to see what might be out there. And equally, I think you might have mentioned sort of parks, and the park can be, you know, a really nice way to sort of start if you're sort of thinking about where can I go that's sort of got, you know, I'm perhaps going to see a little bit more nature, but it feels accessible and safe to go to. Then certainly parks are lovely to go and explore. But for me, I think some of the the parks that we have near where I live, we're really lucky because we've got a lot of really nice parks. But equally, I see some that are just it's just like a sports field. So it's got a vast sports field, but there's not really any opportunity for the insects or for the bees or for the birds because it's not got that planting around it. So, you know, seeking out places where there's a bit of shrubbery and some bushes and you know, flowering plants that are growing as well, or some trees can be really nice because the more biodiverse an area is, the more different types of nature you're going to see, and then that's more things to get you fascinated. But other things you can do as well. I used to love doing this when we used to do this with our children, and I remember doing it when I was little. But picking up stones, you know, you know, like if there's a big rock, pick it up, what's underneath it, and to find some there'll be some like woodlights or little creatures scurrying around, and we'll if we ever went to the beach, we'd sort of go and play if there was a really rocky beach on picking up the stones and then looking at all the creatures scurrying away to hide. And it's so there's like there's all these sort of different environments where we might find sort of evidence of that nature being there. So yeah, there's there's lots of different opportunities, I think, to find it. It's just kind of getting yourself tuned into looking for it, and then you just start to spot more and more of it. So and you know, different times of year as well, watching the for the changing seasons can be really lovely. When we've got the spring blossom come out, when we've got the obviously in the summer, everything's sort of blooming and then autumn or fall, as you'd say, wouldn't you? With when with the trees are all losing their leaves. So noticing the different seasons as well can be really nice.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

All of us can channel that mentality day to day, even if we're in an environment that is surrounded by so much nature, or maybe we're not surrounded by everything that that is so beautiful and wonderful and lush. However, we can take that mentality and put it into real force no matter our situation and really just tip a chip away at the tip of the iceberg. Nature is this whole web of so many different beautiful things. And as you said, maybe in the beginning it looks like a weed on the side of the road. However, if you go closer and you really look at it for what it is, maybe you see different animals crawling it on it. You see ants, you see bees fluttering around, you see a little bud that's blooming for a flower. And then you realize that nature is so much deeper than any of us understand. But you have to be willing to go out there and really observe it and taking that initial step. And no matter the situation, yes, maybe it's a park, maybe it's just a tree on the side of the road, or maybe you're surrounded by a full nature preserve, whatever it may be, go out there and take a moment to reflect and just realize what you're surrounded with and be centered with it all because that really helps us in the future just recycling back to that idea of centering and becoming who we are. So finally, Dr. Harvey, if there's one message that you could share with teenagers about the relationship with the natural world, what would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_00 34:52

I think it's it's just to go out there and enjoy it, to just look for it wherever you can see it. And one thing that I was just sitting here thinking as you were you were sort of doing the conclusion then, I forgot to mention about gardening and houseplants and what you've got at home, you know. So even if you don't have your own garden where you live, you can still grow some houseplants, or you could even have a go at growing some of your own vegetables if you've got room on a balcony, for example, you could perhaps put a tomato plant in or grow some herbs. But that's also a really lovely way of connecting with nature as well. And it's about that wanting to take care of it and care for nature, which is really lovely as well. But I think my you know, my final message would be just to notice what's around you, notice what's nearby, and because there's some lovely nature that's out there, even when you might not be expecting to see it, you can usually find some somewhere. So so yeah, I think that, and you know, take if you have any opportunities to get out there, then take them. And my guess is that even if you're not that connected with nature or that fussed about going out and spending time in nature at the moment, you probably will be when you're a little bit older, because quite often, you know, we might come back to it later on. So yeah, but just get out there and have a good time and enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

That's so lovely. I'm glad that you mentioned gardening because bringing it inside, bringing nature into our house and where we live 24-7 is such a beautiful thing as well, because you can just make it who you are, and maybe there's a plant in your room and it's so much deeper than you ever thought. Originally, you just thought it was a succulent or a little bonsai tree. However, it has a story, and really growing with it, watering it, taking care of it can also connect us back to everything that's around us. So I love that you mentioned that as well. But the overall idea of just getting out there and taking those steps to make sure that nature is a part of your life is so significant and it'll prove to be so beneficial no matter the age. And but continue continuing to bring it into our adolescent years will be very, very crucial. And it'll just help us relax and take those moments in time to reflect and everything. So, Dr. Harvey, thank you so much for sharing your insight and experience with us. It's powerful to realize that nature isn't just scenery, scenery. It can be a teacher, a regulator, a connector, and even a mirror for who we are becoming. So thank you so much for being here today. You're welcome. So, to everyone listening, your environment shapes you more than you might realize. And building a relationship with nature doesn't require something dramatic. It begin it can begin with noticing light, airstries, and even the rhythm of the seasons. You are not separate from the world around you. You are always a part of it. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Growing Forward. Until next time, signing off with an abundant amount of positivity. Your host, Sadie Sunaborn Malachy.